09/11/06

yeah of course i am going to comment on this topic. there are several points that i want to bring up and i hope i dont forget any of them. first of all i dont think the biggest problem with ford is their marketing. ford had record profits in the 90’s based on their suv and truck sales, so based on this they expanded that part of their operation to meet public demand. however now that gas prices have skyrocketed people are not buying the gas guzzlers that they used to. second, it costs a TON of money for american car companies to make their cars because they use a union work force. foriegn car companies are not forced to use unionized labor and this drastically cuts the costs on making cars. the cost for health care has gone way up as well and that cost is put on the company not the workers, also a reason they are losing money. and let us not forget the rapid rate of expansion in china, what does this have to do with the cost of making cars you ask? becasue china is expanding so rapidly they are using a lot of steele driving up the cost, also making it more expensive to make cars. all of that being said ford is coming out with new products to help their lagging sales. for instance the fusion that i drove for the last year has been pretty successful, in fact everyone i know that has driven with me in it has said they liked it. ford has also come out with the edge this year which is the suv/car hybrid. as for the ceo who drives a lexus, yeah that guy is a jackass he should drive a ford. everything in my life i have because my dad works at ford, from my education to the house i live in to the food i eat is all because of the money my dad has made their. he is one of the “high-paid executives”, but has nothing to do with car design but i dont see how they are asking the workers, dealers or public to bail them out. people like you who say they wont buy an american car are in fact hurting the economy though plain and simple. no i dont think you should buy a car if it doesnt appeal to you, but the result of your action is hurtful no matter what your reasoning. i find it hard to believe you cant find one american made car that you like. as for my dad being downsized i hope it donest happen, i dont think he will but nothing is for sure at this point. one last thing i wanted to bring up cuz this has been an extra long comment DUDE YOU DRIVE A FORD FOCUS!!!

10/11/06

Haha, I knew you were going to bring up me driving a Ford Focus! I do because my mom bought it for me, so how am I going to say no to that.

Anyways, yeah the stuff that I brought that could help Ford were definitely not the only factors that I thought were wrong with Ford, and with your pops working there, I’m sure you know alot more than me.

Don’t forget that I didn’t say that I want Ford to fall, I would never wish that upon any company, and I think it’s awesome that your dad working that have provided the life that you have.

But why is it the customers fault if they don’t want to buy American? If they don’t like the cars, why is that their fault? Hypothetically Bill, and if your dad didn’t work at Ford, if there were no american cars that appealed to you, would you still buy one?

I don’t choose to want to buy foreign cars because I’m against America or their car, I am going to buy what I like, and the majority of those are foreign. American cars just don’t appeal to me.

And another question for you. Tobacco brings in shit loads of money to this country and economy right? Am I hurting the economy by not smoking anymore?

10/11/06

this issue is obviously personal for me and that influences my opinion on the matter i cant help that. that being said i can not give you a good answer to your question would i consider buying a foriegn car if my dad didnt work for ford. i am 26 years old and my dad has been at ford for 29 years so ever car we have ever had has been a ford and every car i have ever driven has been a ford. so no i wouldnt ever consider buying anything but a ford. i am not a “car guy” i see cars in categories like compact, mid size, etc. and ford has a model that fits into every category so depending on whatever kind of car i am looking for i will always get the ford that fits that category and there is nothing anyone will ever be able to say, no argument ever put to me that will make me change my mind. i will agree with you that ford has some shitty ass comericals, i have been tellin my dad for years that he should find who ever is in charge of that and thell them they need to change up. i would like to know where this idea that foriegn cars are better than american cars came from, i dont see it. like i said at the beginning of this comment though this issue is personal for me and i doubt i will ever see it. so i have a question for you, what about foriegn cars appeal to you that american cars dont have? as for the tobacco thing, do you know how many workers the ciggerate industry employes? i honestly have no idea, but i am not too worried about them going under because they lost your business, for one thing have you ever heard of a foriegn ciggerate company? as for the focus, yeah of course i had to bring that up and i knew that the reason you drive it is cuz your mom bought it for you, but why did she buy you a focus? you have told me before that your family is a ford family and that your rents always buy ford cars. you should respect your elders john your parents are obviously highly intelligent people (i mean hey i have never met them but i know you and have met your brother and sister) and you should listen to them.

10/11/06

Bill, I know that you were born and raised on Fords, therefore I will never, and have never tried to pursuade you, or anyone for that matter, to buy a foreign car.

So since you aren’t a car guy, my interest in foreign cars is the performance and visual appeal. I like the fact that some foreign cars, I can get for the same price as say, a Ford, that looks alot better and performs better. That’s my personal take. I’m not even trying to say who’s cars are better, I’m simply saying what I like better.

And if you’re not worried about my business being taken away from the ciggy business, then what the hell is the difference if I choose to buy foreign cars? No there aren’t foreign cigs, but it’s still taking business away if people stop smoking.

And yes, my mom bought me a Focus because they’re a Ford family. Who am I to tell my mom not to get me a Ford, it’s her money! But we know where my money would go!

10/11/06

Ok, I’d like to chime in on this little debate.

John is a little bit of a hypocrite because he drives a Ford. Only a little bit because his Mom bought it for him. I’ve actually heard good things about the Focus, amazingly.

Bill is a totally biased individual because of his families history with Ford. If I put a Ford emblem on a Toyota Camary and tricked you into driving it for a month, you’d never go back. We can argue about issues like “marketing”, “appeal”, “value”, and “patriotism”. But a big big big factor that people are buying foreign cars is they run so well and are reliable. People want reliable cars. When your nickname is Fix Or Repair Daily, that doesn’t help.

My folks have never bought a Ford. We subscribe to Consumer Reports and go by what they recommend for reliability. They’ve had Dodge/Plymouth caravans. They bought me a used Camary when I was in high school. I still drive it. And if I bought one today, I wouldn’t be sending my money to rich executives in Japan, I’d be sending it to factory workers in the United States because they build their cars for America in America with American workers. Sorry, Michigan workers, you’re working on the wrong cars.

But John, I have another perspective. Bill probably gets family discounts like crazy on Ford cars and maybe even free service repairs or warranties. So it makes sense, economically, for him to drive a Ford cause he can get it for cheap and repaired for cheap (right Bill?). Sadly, he will never know the joy of foreign cars.

Finally, I’d like to point out that the foreign car companies (the east-asian ones) didn’t no shit about making cars…then American car makers went over and dropped knowledge on them. They used that knowledge and improved the Americans practices, and now they smoke us in sales. Yes, the health-care debate is a big factor and will probably ultimatly kill our car companies, but Ford needs to make reliable, durable, appealing cars to have any chance of staying alive.

Oh, one thing I forgot. I am guilty of always looking at the Fusion when it drives by. That car looks hot and if I had some family member working at Ford to get me a discount, I wouldn’t mind driving it. So Ford, make more cars like that.

10/11/06

i have heard of the Fix Or Repair Daily nickname ford has but in my experience that hasnt been the case. of course i get a new one every year because of the lease deals ford has with its managers so that has a huge influence on it. my mom has had a thunderbird for the last 4 years though and as i recall she hasnt had any problems with it. and as for the family discount i seem to remember something in the last few years where all of the american auto companies offering the same deals to the public that they offer their workers. again i never looked into it though because of the way my dad gets cars through the company.

10/11/06

Ok so they did something right with the Fusion. Good for Ford, now they should keep it up!

And let me just say this so we can all get over the “John drives a Focus” fiasco. My parents have gone to the same dealership for as long as I can remember so they usually get hooked up with a little discount on Fords. Bill, and Andrew, if your mom was to say “I’m buying you a Ford” would you even debate with her that you want something different? In other words, I had no choice, it was a Ford or no car! To simplify even more, and because I wasn’t paying for it, it was a free car or a crisp pair of Nike’s and a bus pass. It’s a no-brainer. So that is settled!

Yes I see that Bill is biased, but technically I should be too because my parents have bought Ford since I was like 5, so I’ve driven tons of them. I’ve never said that Ford makes shitty cars. For the most part, they have been reliable for my family (except when I total one!).

But if someone, like myself likes foreign cars more what the hell is the big deal.

And if I bought one today, I wouldn’t be sending my money to rich executives in Japan, I’d be sending it to factory workers in the United States because they build their cars for America in America with American workers.

I can see where you are coming from, but when I buy a car, I’m not thinking about all that shit. Maybe I’m selfish, but if I’m about to spend $25k on a car, I just want it to look good (to my tastes) and perform well. Simple as that.

10/11/06

Yeah, you can’t really haggle over a free car. Specially a nice one like yours, John.

Bill, I’m glad you mentioned that you’ve not had a car longer than one year. That makes a huge difference. Certainly, a car is going to run fine for one year. And most would expect theirs to run fine for 5 years. But there are folks who want to buy a car and really get their money’s worth that drive cars for 10, 15, 20, even 25 years. So I would say you have little experience with one of Fords biggest flaws and that is long term durability and reliability. Again, can’t blame you for driving thier cars, you’ve got a sweet deal set up.

10/11/06

So here are some numbers. The number one and two best selling cars in america are the Toyota Camry and Honda Accord. Both of them sell about 400,000 units a year. In 2003 the Ford Explorer sold almost that many (I think about (350,000). But Ford sells almost 900,000 F-series vehicles.

Its seems that the big american companies have some padding then. The first comes from the status symbol of the american truck (that commercial: “I’m a Ford truck man, its all I driiiive …”). In the city the SUVs were a little more dominant. So in order to “help out” our companies we gave them a little break. Trucks have lower standards for emission which allows for the massive engines to be made without worry. SUVs were qualified as trucks (the PT Crusier is classified as an SUV) so they could also make their engines with less worry. Oh and did I forget, we should buy domestic vehicles to help stimulate the economy.

The end result is pampered companies that had to be bailed out in the 80s and are in deep shit again. What happened to the competative american spirit. I don’t want to buy an american car just becuase its made here all the while knowing I am not getting bang for my buck. Foreign companies (especially Japanese) know they have to stay competative. The efficiencies in their companies have to be great so they can deliver a superior product at a lower cost. Take a look at some of their terminology and you can get a feel for their business mentality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Production_System

As for the cigaretes. Well China produces 2.51 , Brazill 0.88, India 0.6 and we are fourth with 0.29 million metric tons of tobacco per year. The reason you don’t really see it is becuase of the ridiculously high taxes on cigarets especially import tobacco. If you go into tobacco shops you’ll see plenty of foreign tobacco. Its just the relative price difference between foreign and domestic smokes is grater than the price difference between foreign and domestic vehicles. Besides if you are droping $6 every so often how likely are you to spend $7.

Anyway I would love to support our companies, but pampering them will just make (or really keep) them week. Im not saying tough love but something in between.

10/11/06

I don’t want to buy an american car just becuase its made here all the while knowing I am not getting bang for my buck

Exactly, I’m not against people wanting to support our companies, but I am also for people choosing what best suites their lifestyle and tastes whether that is foreign or domestic. And for me, it’s for the most part, not American cars.

11/11/06

FORD= Fix Or Repair Daily

Or:

FORD= Found On Road Dead

Bill is biased. John drives a Focus. Darko is foreign (especially when he breaks out the leather gloves for a better grip on the wheel).

Now me, personally… I’ve never had any problem with my ‘90 Honda Civic… with the exception that it’s a ‘90 Honda Civic.

=w=

11/11/06

W, was there a point you were trying to make? If so I completely missed it.